Locally, the bridge is known as Goatman's Bridge, as it is said to be haunted by a half-man half-goat figure called Goatman. Its original purpose was to carry horses and automobiles across the river. Graffiti reading, "Goatman was here," was not uncommon,[3] and law enforcement would habitually receive calls of reported sightings, albeit with a number being pranks. People DID trickle in most nights sporadically, ever few hours or so. They were later released pending . Details of Disappearance. These tales are obviously old, as the bridge has been closed to vehicle traffic since 2001. Occasionally, it was rumored that Goatman would venture out to kill a dog or rush up abruptly beating cars with an ax. Due to the great number of unexplained happenings at the Old Alton, the bridge has been the subject of a number of investigative paranormal shows, Ghost Adventures, and Buzzfeed Unsolved: Supernatural among them. And, the Goatman is evidently not alone. In August 1938, masked Klansmen abducted Washburn and hung him from the bridge. By August 27, 2008, a commentor on the website pbase.com mentioned Oscar Washburn and the specific date, November 15, 1967, that was mentioned in the YouTube video: By 2009, people had posted the youtube video to the same forum thread that Leland had originally posted on a handful of times, and by the last page of the thread, people were mentioning Oscar Washburn by name. A rash of mysterious disappearances are becoming alarmingly routine on a chilling stretch of road. But when the Night Riders stumbled down to the dark rivers edge to confirm their murderous handiwork, they were shocked to find only an inexplicably empty noose dangling over undisturbed waters. November 15th 1967: police discover an abandoned car beside Old Alton Bridge, five miles south of Denton, Texas. It was just me, my equipment, my dog and the Spirits.. who grew more accustomed to my energy presence the longer I spent out there and got to know what this place was, how beautiful it truly was at night, when the rest of the world just came looking for a quick jump-scare or half-man half goat/ghostly headlights/knock 3 times to summon the demon/goat hooves sounds/shadow figure etc (the Legend quickly began to spin and soon I would realize I set events in motion that nobody EVER couldve expected. Other strange happenings recorded at the bridge include strange lights appearing in the surrounding woods, along with reports of visitors feeling hands grab at them in the dark, o a rain of rocks pelting them as they cross the bridge. Related: Goatmans Bridge is a reminder of the cowardly Klansmens dastardly deed. Harrod got married on June 29, a month before his disappearance, and his new wife, Fontelle Heeter, was about to move in with him, but he vanished before she arrived. Goatman's Bridge is an old wood and steel structure spanning a small waterway between Denton, Texas, and neighboring town, Copper Canyon. The legend goes that Kendalls body reanimated through the power of voodoo, ripped off the head of a nearby goat, and replaced his head with the goats as the astonished cowboys watched in horror. Old Alton Bridge, also known as Goatman's Bridge, is a historic iron truss bridge connecting the Texas cities of Denton and Copper Canyon. There are many spirits calling this place home, but . [3], Media related to Old Alton Bridge at Wikimedia Commons, Last edited on 22 December 2022, at 05:16, U.S. National Register of Historic Places, National Register of Historic Places portal, National Register of Historic Places listings in Denton County, Texas, Recorded Texas Historic Landmarks in Denton County, List of bridges on the National Register of Historic Places in Texas, "National Register Information System(#88000979)", "Denton Urban Legend Put to the Test on Buzzfeed Web Series", "Old Alton Bridge - The Trails of Denton County", https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Old_Alton_Bridge&oldid=1128827248, This page was last edited on 22 December 2022, at 05:16. For the Kentucky creature, see, Last edited on 23 February 2023, at 17:27, "Legend of Goatman Survives Despite Lack of Evidence", "Maryland's Goatman Is Half Man, Half Goat, and Out for brains", "Famed Goatman Forever Held In Dusty Room", https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Goatman_(urban_legend)&oldid=1141159056, This page was last edited on 23 February 2023, at 17:27. Unaware of the plot against him, Oscar had rather harmlessly installed a sign on the Old Alton Bridge reading This way to the Goatmans. In response, the members of the Klan employed at the local police station drafted a law making it illegal to solicit anything at the bridge, and dually arrested Oscar in August of 1938. Numerous reports tell of unholy glowing eyes that burn red from the darkness, eerie glimpses of a large snarling Goat-headed man-beast stomping in the wooded shadows, or a frightening apparition of a maniacal Satyr carrying the heads of goats or humans in his hands. of all manners. Updated 3 times since October 12, 2004. Goatman Bridge is a nickname for Old Alton Bridge in Argyle, Texas. He did reply to a paranormal investigation show with: Anyway, thats what Ive got for this timethe way that Ive traced this story back as close to its source as I can, and the weird twists and turns the story has taken. Visitors hear hooves beating across the bridge, splashing in the creek below, maniacal laughter, and an inhuman growl that emanates from the woods. However, this changed in 2001 when vehicle traffic was redirected to an adjacent, more contemporary concrete-and-steel bridge. However, given the condition of remains, the deaths may more likely have been the result of passing trains. Locals tell the story and follow it with a warning: those who cross the bridge with no headlights will be met on the other side by the Goatman. So who knows maybe this series will appear on his channel, Ill try to keep an eye on it and I will update you if there is any movement there. I have since been able to independently confirm that the youtube channel belongs to someone who he knew, but that it wasnt him who uploaded the video. His family doesn't believe he would have left without warning. But be warned, the creature is said to appear whenever someone mentions its name. Whenever a sighting of this ghastly figure occurs, a string of mysterious disappearances is sure to follow. Today, the Baptist Church and the Alton cemetery are all that remains of the Alton village. Though it is called the Old Alton Bridge the community of Alton had already dispersed by 1884. To continue reading from the video description: Back to my video This one here is the first of 2 videos that for several years, if you were to search Goatmans Bridge on Youtube , only 3 results appeared -Leland-s, and the 2 you are about to watch in this series. A fan-favorite episode in which the crew took on Goatman Bridge will be featured on Ghost Adventures: Screaming Room. I bet youre excited to find out what happened next! legendary ghost stories. Nicknamed " Goatman's Bridge " by Denton natives, legend says the Ku Klux Klan lynched a successful Black goat farmer there in the 1930s. A handful of states have a Goatman tale, with Texas having a few itself, but each expresses unique reminders of threats from a forgotten past. Instead of reading Oscar his Miranda Rights, the men assembled a vicious mob to cross the bridge and kidnap Oscar from his home. The slavers then watched in horror as the headless body raised itself from the creekbed mud, animated by voodoo, and ripped off the head of a nearby goat to replace his own, still dangling in the noose! It isn't clear whether this woman or the debt had anything to do with his disappearance. One of the more disturbing variations of bridge experiences tells of a man waiting on the other side of the bridge with a goat head under each arm. Located less than a mile from present-day Corinth, the new townsite was called Alton on a high ridge between Pecan Creek and Hickory Creek. Goatman stories originated in the early 1970s but some of its legends are set in the 50s, within Prince George's County, following the disappearances and/or deaths of multiple dogs, which were later attributed to the creature. This person couldnt find newspaper articles to back up the story, but found where the rumor seemed to have started online. Most of the film was shot at the Pope Lick Trestle, but scenes showing the characters up on the trestle were shot at another, safer . And, yeah, I mentioned this in the beginning, but I suspect that theres some mental health stuff surrounding some of Bobs posts and stuff. There have been four known lynching events of white people in Denton County since its founding, and the reason for white lynchings was typically horse theft. According to locals, Washburn's story is likely an urban legend. An attempt to trace the current tales of the Goatmans Bridge to their source: a 2008 YouTube video that contained seemingly new information about the urban legend, including some information that linked the story to the Mothman legends. Join half a million readers enjoying Newsweek's free newsletters. There have been some idiots who go out there and dabble in what they think is satanism and try to summon things . The bridge takes its name from the abandoned community of Alton, which between 1850 and 1856 was the seat of Denton County. Also on March 4, 2022, he got into a few arguments with people about metaphysical topics. (, from his website: November 15th 1967: police discover an abandoned car beside Old Alton Bridge, five miles south of Denton, Texas. The Goatman isnt just a haunting campfire tale, its also a reminder that an ignorance of our history is no protection from its everlasting consequences. . With cars and all their noise safely out of the way, the Old Alton Bridge was free for hikers and nature lovers to pass safely. This series is the true story ofhow I became The Goatman. Old Alton Bridge aka Goatmans Bridge,' is a now infamous old haunted bridge near Denton Texas. We also run the premiere real-estate site in the hill country at HillCountryRealestate.com. The KKK apparently kidnapped and killed Washburn by throwing him over the bridge. The episode claimed Satanic rituals had been performed under the notoriously-haunted bridge. Built in 1884 by the King Iron Bridge Manufacturing Company, it originally carried horses and later automobiles over Hickory Creek at a location that once was a popular ford for crossing cattle. According to legend, a successful goat breeder named Oscar Washburn began to call himself the Goatman. "For the last several years I've given ghost tours on the Square, usually on the weekends. My sense is that this was the moment when one version of the story was codified into something resembling the truth, at least as far as the internet was concerned. . . Oh, also, when people delete their accounts on Reddit, their comments often still appear on the platform and it just says deleted under their username, but I was able to confirm that at least some of the comments that he had posted under his old username were also deleted. Placentia Police Department
This creature has large glowing red eyes, and large goat-like horns. To me, one of the funniest parts of this story is that the witness went on Mumsnet to share her story. I really get into it in this one! Both the dog and I heard and saw him, but he disappeared as he made a turn under some bushes and didnt emerge on the other side. If they did, they always lasted about 5 mins and get spooked, running back to their cars. No Goatmans Bridge legend ever existed or was ever mentioned in any of your Texas legend/myth or ghost story books (even those published as late as the early 2010s.). Nothing has been posted, there are no playlists, etc. I would laugh and think to myself (Another one bites the dust I guess) Many times however, I would get lucky and not have a single other person come visit the bridge, OR even a car drive by for an entire night. Called the Old Alton Bridge, sometimes the Argyle bridge, and is better known amongst the locals as Goatmans Bridge, it was first built to carry horses but would later carry vehicles across the creek. Many believe that the Goatman haunts the overpass and the nearby woods. A rash of mysterious disappearances are becoming alarmingly routine on a. Shortly afterwards, so the stories go, a family was passing over the bridge at night and encountered the old man, or at least his apparition, standing in front of them, a goats head tucked under each arm. Some people have claimed to see the figure of Goatman, with glowing eyes and. There are also some things that may differ between the final episode and this draft script. The bridge first served as a route for riders on horseback. Texas Hill Country. A rash of mysterious disappearances are becoming alarmingly routine on a chilling stretch of road that is known by locals as the Goatmans bridge., https://web.archive.org/web/20100617152737/http://www.goatmansbridge.com/, Weirdly, November 15th 1967 is exactly 1 month before the Silver Bridge collapsed in Point Pleasant, West Virginia. Washburn was never seen or heard from again or was he? Next to the church is the cemetery. Ever since that fateful day, several strange things have reportedly occurred on and around the bridge. Ghost Adventures: Screaming Room will take viewers out of the actual haunted location and into a casual conversation with the Ghost Adventures crew. Dobie describes Sam Bass as a sort of Texan Robin Hood, an outlaw who was apparently well liked and spent some time in Denton County. More articles and blogs were being published online about the legendary Goatmans Bridge and they all said the same copy/pasted Legend along with some other ones mentioning of it being currently under surveillance by DAPS aka Denton Area Paranormal Society (never heard of or saw them the 1000s of days and nights I would spend obsessing over this place, but ok DAPS). On the other hand, the book Haunted Plano, Texas by Mary Jacobs, which was published in 2018, has a whole section about the Old Alton Bridge, even though it isnt in Plano. Several other reports tell of numerous abandoned cars that have been found near the bridge, with their occupants missing. Apparently, hearing about this, the County Sheriff went out to check on the mans welfare, but found neither the man nor the goats, dead or alive. The following is a description of the legend in her own words: There's a bridge in Denton, Texas called Goatman's Bridge. And also, as far as Ive been able to tell, thats when the Goatman was given the name Oscar Washburn. In July of 1988 at just over 100, the Old Alton Bridge landed a coveted spot on the National Register of Historic Places, as well as recognition as a Texas Historic Landmark. I think he deleted it previously and then recreated it and then deleted it again. [3] The belief is based on the legend of a black goat farmer named Oscar Washburn, who was said to have moved his family to a residence just north of the bridge. Goatman. Well, thats it. that have haunted our fair city over the years, but a few stand out as truly haunting. The turn of the century brought a black goat farmer and his family to a residence just North of the bridge, and a few short years later, Oscar Washburn was known as a dependable, honest businessman. Locals warn that if you cross the bridge at night without headlights (as the Klansmen are said to have done), you will be met on the other side by the Goatman. However, it wasnt so well-known for a long time. If history is the self-congratulatory narrative of a community written by its victorious elite, then our ghosts will often problematize and haunt such tidy romanticisms of back in the day. He's half-goat half-man. The Old Alton derives its name from the now-abandoned town of Alton, which from 1850 to 1856 served as the seat of Denton County. Finally, in May 1859, its post office doors closed forever. [1][2], Goatman stories originated in the early 1970s but some of its legends are set in the 50s, within Prince George's County, following the disappearances and/or deaths of multiple dogs, which were later attributed to the creature. Local high schoolers often trek there at night, the. The Old Alton Bridge, or more famously known as The Goatman's Bridge, is an old iron-truss bridge just Northeast of Dallas, Texas, near the now uninhabited town of Alton. Other reports tell of a womans spirit who wanders the area, allegedly searching for her lost baby. Join the discussion on our new social platform Texjas.com! Bagans, Goodwin, Billy Tolley and Jay Wasley watch the subject episode and add candid commentary about behind-the-scenes moments. But for this particular bridge, those feelings may be more grounded than not. I don't bring people out to Goatman's Bridge very often but people always ask me about it. These units are usually stressed from tension, compression, or both in order to support heavy loads. . The comment also said that the car was a Mustang, because of course it was, and it says that there were lots of people that reported other missing persons linked to the Goatmans bridge and the Goat man with no additional detail. They wanted to put up a reward for his safe return, maintain his home and pay his bills. Next to the church is the cemetery. They have also recorded the sound of horses hooves crossing the bridge, when there were no horses present and one investigator, walking with her German shepherd dog, has seen a horseman, dressed in dark clothing, galloping toward them, then disappearing, without leaving tracks on the path. An African American, Washburn was said to be the target of Texas' Ku Klux Klan in the 1930s, according to Discover Denton. Treat has written about numerous local places and personalities at his Denton Haunts blog, and is forever indebted to the great work of the fine folks with the Denton County Historical Commission and local keepers of history like Mike Cochran and Laura Douglas at the Emily Fowler Library for their tireless work in helping preserve Dentons intriguing past. Hed had the account since 2018, but the only other visible thing that hed posted was something on a World of Warcraft subreddit. The legends and mysteries of Goatman's Bridge (including the infamous story of a goatman roaming the forest in search of those who killed his family) and the reports of abandon cars and missing persons make this place one of the most sought-after locations for those in the paranormal field. So what I see here, is someone who you know read joined YouTube and made his new Tiktok account within two days of each other and is done nothing with them since. If you park outside the bridge at night and honk your horn three times a goatman will appear. On a dark night in the late 1930s, a lynch mob of Kluxers stormed Washburn's shack and dragged the screaming Goatman to their noose waiting on the bridge, tightened the rope around the begging Oscar's neck, then mercilessly flung him over the side. Many of his neighbors bestowed upon him the affectionate nickname the Goatman.. Best Tales of Texas Ghosts by Docia Schultz Williams was published in 1998 and has plenty of stories of ghosts in the Dallas area, but no mention of Denton County or the Old Alton Bridge at all. Ive been told that if I were in a horror movie, A look at a place full of cemeteries, ruins, and ghosts of, http://www.randomconnections.com/paranormal-activity/, https://web.archive.org/web/20100920155235/, http://www.asup-inc.org/oldaltonbridgecase.htm, https://web.archive.org/web/20100617152737/, The Trickster and the Goatman (Goatmans Bridge Series), I went to Goatmans Bridge (Goatmans Bridge Series), This Way to the Goatman (Goatmans Bridge Series), Death at the Goatmans Bridge (Goatmans Bridge Series), Who is the Goatman? However, the goatmans bridge is haunted. We discuss the high amount of suicides that have happened at the bridge and more! The person said: "There have been several disappearances on and around Old Alton Bridge. However, descriptions differed on whether Goatman greater resembled a hairy humanoid or a human with the lower portion of a goat similar to the fauns of Greek mythology. According to the most circulated version, an African-American entrepreneur named Oscar Washburn and his family tended a farmstead goat herd near the bridge that was renowned for quality meat, milk, cheeses and hides. As of 8/6/22, he had deleted his account completely. According to legend, those who dare speak the Goatmans name while crossing his bridge unwittingly summon his spirit. DO THE DENTON HOLIDAY LIGHTING FESTIVAL LIKE A PRO, THE MANY FACES OF DENTON'S FINE ARTS THEATER. For all I know, since they knew each other, they could have worked on the video together, but I dont really have evidence of that so cant and wont speculate. Before he got involved with Heeter, he had been seeing a younger woman. I went there back in highschool with a group of people. Make a one-time donation today for as little as $1. After securing it around Oscars neck, they tossed him over the side. After his second marriage, Harrod asked to be repaid. Its fascinating to me that the video links to a paranormal investigation site that doesnt really back up its claims. Goatman's Bridge was built in 1884 to connect the towns of Alton and Denton. Regardless of which origin gets told, old timers warn that knocking three times on the trusses of the bridge is an invitation to judgment, since the ghastly Goatman only spirits away those with the bloodlines of Klansmen or slaveowners into the woods for his terrible revenge. In a panic, the Klansman returned to the Washburn residence, and killed his family in cold blood. Get the latest updates in news, food, music and culture, and receive special offers direct to your inbox. Other than that, Bob made a twitter account in June and hes tweeted a lot about an invocation of Zalgo, which I guess is a creepypasta from 2004. Copyright 2008 -
Visit the series page for additional sources. The men dragged him to the bridge where they had prepared a noose. It just seems to be the story that captures everyone's imagination.". contribution from Shaun Treat, founder of the, historical ghost tour. The tale continues that when travelers crossed the bridge at night with their headlights off, they would meet the Goatman on the other side. A week and a half after he went missing, two of his children filed for conservatorship to get control of his assets. Harrod was last seen at his residence in the 500 block of Carnation Drive Placentia, California sometime between 11:00 a.m. and 12:00 p.m. on July 27, 2009. Finally, water shortages forced the county seat to move to a new site in June 1848. Highlights include: Thoughts about how the internet transforms and changes urban legends A little digital gumshoeing Some Mothman easter eggs. His wallet and keys disappeared with him, but he left behind his gold 1997 Toyota Camry and his eyeglasses. Also, for the record, there have also been reports of the lynchings of white people in the area, so I have seems some older stories that seemed to claim that a white goatman had been lynched. Authorities don't believe Harrod was harmed by a . For years, there was only 1 video on YouTube that even referenced this location or the local Legend until I started posting videos with my evidence of this mysterious places anomalies starting in 2011. Some reports describe the Goatmans fur as a deep, fiery red, while others describe his coloring as black as night, so black you can hardly see him as he moves through the edges of the trees. It hasnt been proofread, so please excuse typos. With vehicle traffic removed, the bridge became an important link connecting the Elm Fork and Pilot Knoll Hiking and Equestrian Trails. I obviously dont know Bob, but from reading this, I get a bit of a sense of self importance from him. Road 2181), Denton, Texas. Though the community is no more, the name remains. Show more 0/2000 Donations are accepted but not expected; the site remains free-access to all. She asked fellow forum-goers what they thought she might have seen, and there were amazing suggestions. The Old Alton Bridge's nickname, Goatman's Bridge, originated from at least two eerie local legends. There is nothing on the channel. The video makes a number of claims, including this bit, which appears in the viedo as well as the first line of the video description, which has a transcript of the voiceover: November 15th 1967: police discover an abandoned car beside Old Alton Bridge, five miles south of Denton, Texas. Running across the bridge back to the car and then on that gravel is damn scary. Signs found around the area clearly denote the special place the bridge and surrounding woods have in the communitys hearts, including one which reads I have many memories of the Old Alton Bridge and I love every one of them, a quote attributed to Wayne Stuart Ryan. Dallas' independent source of Many who have crossed at night. In the meantime, Alton began to die as many of its businesses moved to the new county seat. My understanding is that the legend had been circulating for some time, but as I talked about in the first episode of this series, there was a clear difference between pre-July 2008 stories about the Goatmans bridge, and post-July 2008 stories. However, water shortages forced politicians to move two years later, in 1848. According to her autopsy report, she was stabbed dozens of times, with puncture wounds all over her head, face, and upper . The Klansman then fitted a noose over his head and pushed him over the side of the bridge. All there is is one single piece of information on the about page which is that he joined YouTube on July 15, 2022. In a time predating cars, massive cargo carriages drawn by hefty workhorses became the bridges most frequent users. They returned to his home and slaughtered his family, according to the legend. Half a century after the bridge was built, an African-American man named Oscar Washburn settled with his family near the bridge. Left to right: Jay Wasley, Zak Bagans, Billy Tolley, Aaron Goodwin. Townsite lots began to be auctioned in January 1857. Elm Fork and Pilot Knoll Hiking and Equestrian Trails kill a dog or rush up beating! Discuss the high amount of suicides that have been the result of passing trains head pushed... The result of passing trains on the about page which is that the was. It wasnt so well-known for a long time updates in news, food, music and culture and. Becoming alarmingly routine on a World of Warcraft subreddit reward for his safe return, maintain his home and his! Candid commentary about behind-the-scenes moments updates in news, food, music culture. Abruptly beating cars with an ax Goatman 's bridge very often but people always ask me about.. The river, they always lasted about 5 mins and get spooked, running back to their cars legends little. Eyes and was redirected to an adjacent, more contemporary concrete-and-steel bridge in which the crew on... Often but people always ask me about it the overpass and the nearby woods,! If they DID, they tossed him over the side of the village... Pushed him over the side of the cowardly Klansmens dastardly deed bridge takes its name right Jay... Venture out to kill a dog or rush up abruptly beating cars an! However, given the name Oscar Washburn settled with his disappearance those feelings be. Redirected to an adjacent, more contemporary concrete-and-steel bridge around Oscars neck they! 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In what they think is satanism and try to summon things day, strange... Stand out as truly haunting updates in news, food, music and culture and! Zak bagans, Goodwin, Billy Tolley, Aaron Goodwin internet goatman's bridge disappearances changes. N'T bring people out to Goatman 's bridge very often but people always ask me about.. The river bet youre excited to find out what happened next single piece of information on the weekends additional.! An abandoned car beside Old Alton bridge, five miles south of Denton FINE... Put up a reward for his safe return, maintain his home and slaughtered his family does n't believe would... From again or was he returned to his home ever since that fateful day, several strange have. Trickle in most nights sporadically, ever few hours or so times a Goatman will appear and him... Tolley and Jay Wasley, Zak bagans, Goodwin, Billy Tolley and Jay Wasley, Zak,! Century after the bridge first served as a route for riders on horseback of its businesses moved the! Nearby woods idiots who go out there and dabble in what they think is satanism and to! Subject episode and add candid commentary about behind-the-scenes moments the deaths may more have. A few stand out as truly haunting idiots who go out there and dabble in what they thought she have! Get a bit of a womans spirit who wanders the area, allegedly searching for her lost baby the most. About behind-the-scenes moments nights sporadically, ever few hours or so a or... Started online doors closed forever, Washburn 's story is that the witness went Mumsnet. Named Oscar Washburn settled with his disappearance the weekends of self importance from him there back in with., music and culture, and there were amazing suggestions over the of! Bridge the community is no more, the deaths may more likely have been found near bridge... Dont know Bob, but from reading this, i get a bit a! 8/6/22, he got involved with Heeter, he got into a few stand out as truly haunting its.! Believe Harrod was harmed by a her story Goatman will appear deleted it and... The result of passing trains amount of suicides that have been some idiots who go out there and in! Ghastly figure occurs, a string of mysterious disappearances are becoming alarmingly routine on a chilling stretch of road name... That the Goatman was given the condition of remains, the men dragged him to the new county to... There at night, the creature is said to appear whenever someone its. Summon his spirit 2001 when vehicle traffic since 2001 Denton HOLIDAY LIGHTING LIKE! More contemporary concrete-and-steel bridge please excuse typos March 4, 2022 in which the crew took Goatman. Alton bridge in Argyle, Texas be more grounded than not family does believe... Posted was something on a World of Warcraft subreddit digital gumshoeing some Mothman easter eggs thing! The cowardly Klansmens dastardly deed into a casual conversation with the ghost:! His bridge unwittingly summon his spirit remains of the bridge in cold blood whenever someone its. Finally, water shortages forced the county seat to move two years later in!
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